Medical expert: Floyd could’ve lived if repositioned

UPDATE: The trial of three former Minneapolis police officers charged with violating George Floyd’s rights resumed Monday after a pause due to COVID-19 last week.

As court resumed after the lunch break, attorneys addressed several matters with Judge Magnuson before the jury entered the room.

The U.S. Attorneys team argued against allowing evidence from the defense teams that includes changes to Minneapolis Police Department policy following Floyd’s death.

J. Alexander Kueng’s attorney Tom Plunkett argued it shows his client “relied on flawed training.” Tou Thao’s attorney Robert Paule also raised an objection to an upcoming witness he said the government intends to call to the stand.

Nicole MacKenzie testified during the Derek Chauvin state murder trial. At the time, she was a medical coordinator for the Minneapolis Police Department.

Paule argued the government plans to use the witness to rebut testimony from MPD Inspector Katie Blackwell. The U.S. Attorneys team disputed that point. Judge Magnuson ultimately held off on making a decision.

Once the jury entered the room, Paule began cross-examining the government’s expert witness, Dr. David Systrom. He practices pulmonary and critical care Medicine and confirmed he treats patents in an inpatient and outpatient setting throughout the year. 

Dr. Systrom confirmed he was first contacted by the U.S. Attorney’s team in February of 2021. He testified he looked at body camera footage and bystander footage as part of his review of the case. Dr. Systrom also reviewed Floyd’s medical history. 

When Paule asked, the doctor testified he did not see Minneapolis Police training policies on the list of items he reviewed but added, “I wanted to understand in terms of causation of Mr. Floyd’s death what was available to him in the field before the EMTs arrived and so this is just a very general statement, my understanding is the Minneapolis Police Officers are trained in basic CPR and first aid…”

He confirmed he disagreed with Chief Hennepin County Medical Examiner Dr. Baker’s assessment on whether there was asphyxia in this case.

Dr. Systrom reminded Paule and jury, however, that Dr. Baker testified he would defer to a pulmonologist in regards to mechanical asphyxia. 

Thao’s attorney informed the jury that Dr. Systrom attended an event at Brigham and Women’s hospital, two of Harvard’s main teaching hospitals, in June 2020. 

The doctor confirmed, “it was a vigil, it was in deference to the events surrounding George Floyd’s death.” Paule showed the jury two photos from the event, which showed dozens of medical professionals kneeling. 

Dr. Systrom confirmed they knelt for about nine to nine and a half minutes to represent the time Chauvin was restraining Floyd. Paule clarified it would’ve been eight minutes and 46 seconds at the time. 

J. Alexander Kueng’s attorney Thomas Plunkett cross-examined Dr. Systrom following Paule. He walked the doctor through a series of still-frame photos of the body camera footage. 

The doctor confirmed at various times Kueng’s knee appeared to be in the air and below Floyd’s buttocks. 

Plunkett asked, “We don’t know how much weight is being applied there but we can see that Mr. Keung’s left foot is on the ground […] that appears to be a weight-bearing thing […]?”

Dr. Systrom replied, “I think we have to define further ‘weight-bearing thing’. It appears he’s on his toe […] He is not applying his full weight to his left foot, he is up on his toe, therefore a portion of his weight has been shifted to his right knee.” 

He confirmed he couldn’t give an exact number to quantify the pressure on Floyd but said the various pressure points “added up.” He also said that whether Kueng’s knee was on Floyd’s thigh or higher up on his buttocks didn’t make a difference. 

Dr. Systrom said in either position, “[it] had an affect on Mr. Floyd’s ability to self recover and move his buttocks up in the air” to remove the pressure on his abdomen or chest.

Plunkett turned then to the 55 items the doctor considered during his review of the case, including body worn cameras, surveillance footage, and expert witness testimony from Derek Chauvin’s state trial.

The defense attorney argued Kueng didn’t have access to all of that information.

Dr. Systrom rebutted, however, saying “Mr. Kueng had a front row seat.” 

When prosecutors later asked him to clarify what he meant, the doctor explained, “[Kueng] was on the side of the car […] with Mr. Floyd and from the videos taken from that side, there are a number of red flags that went up, including bystanders and Mr. Lane, of course, saying that they thought he had lost consciousness. Big red flag. In theory there could be observations of breathing but I respect not all angles were efficacious in determining that and then certainly ‘No pulse’ would have been, I believe, very clearly stated and for all to hear on that side of the vehicle […] Then there were also, on at least two occasions, an officer suggesting they mitigate the restraint by rolling Mr. Floyd over on his side […] So I think all of these things were available. “ 

Thomas Lane’s attorney Earl Gray focused his cross examination on the timeline of when a pulse was taken, when Floyd’s breathing stopped and when Lane started performing compressions in the ambulance. 

Dr. Systrom testified, “[…] After four minutes of cardio pulmonary arrest without CPR, there are clearly diminishing returns once one begins CPR in a delayed fashion.”

Gray asked whether Lane started compressions within about three minutes, the doctor confirmed that and said, “There’s still a chance.”

When Prosecutors followed up, however, he said the timing “depends when we time the onset of the arrest […]” He said it appeared to be closer to four or five minutes. 

The U.S. Attorney’s Office called a Minneapolis Police Department medical support coordinator as its second witness of the day. Nicole MacKenzie also testified during Chauvin’s state murder trial.

She told the jury she provides Academy and in-service medical training. MacKenzie testified has been an assistant and primary instructor for well over 100 sessions. 

MacKenzie told the jury, “In the event you’re taking somebody into custody you have a responsibility to render aid to that person.” 

MacKenzie said in use-of-force situations officers are trained, to be “looking for any obvious physical injuries […] asking if they have any injuries they want to self report and then assessing their level of consciousness.”

She explained that at the Minneapolis Police Academy, recruits receive a 40 hour Emergency Medical Responder course. They learn CPR and AED use, about blood borne pathogens, tactical combat casualty care, Narcan training and about excited delirium. 

The side recovery position is also taught during the EMR course.

“If you have an unconscious person that is breathing inadequately place them in the recovery position,” said MacKenzie. “An unconscious person might occlude their own airway with their tongue.” 

Both Kueng and Lane took the EMR course, according to MacKenzie.

She explained recruits are taught about the side-recovery position during their first day of training. Ethics and the duty to intervene are also discussed during the first day of the course. 

She said it is “because we have a duty to render aid to people” and told the jury this applies regardless of how officers come into contact with the person.

MacKenzie confirmed the side recovery position is part of a scenario they have to sign off on in order for an officer to pass EMR training. 

MacKenzie’s testimony is set to continue at 9:30 a.m. Tuesday.

5 EYEWITNESS NEWS Reporter Callan Gray provided live updates of Monday’s proceedings below.

Tweets by CallanGrayNews

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The federal trial of three former Minneapolis police officers charged with violating George Floyd’s rights is expected to resume Monday, after it was abruptly suspended last week because one of the defendants tested positive for COVID-19.

Thomas Lane, J. Alexander Kueng and Tou Thao are charged with depriving Floyd of his civil rights in the 2020 arrest that resulted in his death. Kueng and Thao also face an additional charge of depriving Floyd of his civil rights for not helping Floyd. Derek Chauvin pleaded guilty in his federal case back in December.

Defense attorneys are trying to make the case that the officers’ training was inadequate and that the police department has a culture that teaches new officers to not question their superiors.

They have said that Chauvin, the most senior officer on the scene, took charge the day Floyd was killed.

The trial was in the middle of its second week when it was abruptly paused last Wednesday after one of the three defendants tested positive for COVID-19.

However, before the trial can continue, the defendant who tested positive will need to be re-tested, along with anyone who was considered in close proximity.

The defendant who tested positive wasn’t named, but Keung and Thao were in court that day, and Lane was not.

There are several COVID precautions in place in the federal courtroom, such as plexiglass dividers, each team being seated at their own table, and masks are required.

In addition, trial participants have to answer a COVID symptom questionnaire daily, and they are tested if they’ve been in close contact with anyone who has tested positive, or if they’re showing any symptoms.

“It’s the kind of delay that’s unusual generally, but not in a COVID environment,” said Tom Heffelfinger, a former U.S. Attorney. “Safety of the jurors and people in the courtroom are frankly more important right now than a schedule.”

The court said the judge and jurors are not considered close contacts because they were not within six feet of the attorney’s tables.

Legal experts say this kind of extended break in the trial could have an impact on the outcome.

“In general, this kind of delay is going to favor the defense because it’s going to mean the defense’s evidence is going to be presented more recently to the jury then they retire to the jury room, which means they’re more likely to focus on it and remember it,” said Mark Osler, a University of St. Thomas law professor.

Legal experts also say the delay could put more pressure on the prosecution to shorten their case, and potentially cut out witnesses.

The trial, which has been in recess since last Wednesday, is expected to resume at 9:30 a.m. Monday. However, that could change depending on what the judge decides.

Testimony began Jan. 24 after a jury was quickly selected in one day. Judge Paul Magnuson ordered the selection of six alternates instead of the usual two in case any jurors became ill and had to drop out.

KSTP’s complete George Floyd coverage

The Associated Press contributed to this report.